Pre-Wrath: The Six Month Suggestion

This is going to sound like it has NOTHING to do with the title, but please bear with me as we muddle through this, k?  I know it’s Monday, I know you aren’t ready to be hit over the head with a big theological and prophetical pretzel… I can’t help that it was presented to me yesterday and that I was told to get out of my warm, comfortable bed early to write it.  I didn’t want to – it was chilly, I have a cold, I was comfy… and here I am, nonetheless.  And this is going to be long, but it’s important, and WORTH it.  Believe me.

I’ve tried to explain before, but I’m not sure if y’all got it, so I’m going to start out trying to explain how it works to you again.  Which is going to be a trick, because I really don’t fully understand myself how it works.  ((shakes head))  I wish I did.  But it boils down to this:  I’m not in charge.  You see these fortune tellers that you pay a fiver at the fair and they can tell you your future… you go to a palm reader or tarot card chicka and they can conjure up just the person or future event you want information about or from… a ouija board will answer your questions.   I’ll be honest with you – Satan appears to be far more accomodating endulging human whims than God.  Satan tells them what they want to hear (right or wrong), while God doesn’t tell me ANYTHING I want to hear, and when He *does* give me a ‘green light’ or brings some important thing to mind for me, it’s never in the time I want it or about what I want it to be about.

It must be a control thing – Satan likes to give his mediums a sense of control.  God wants me to KNOW that I have absolutely no control, and that it’s a priviledge for me to even get what I get.  I don’t get any say in what I’m given, when I’m given it, or what I’m given it for.  I simply do what I’m told.  Now what I just said makes the Craft sound WAY more appealing than God, but the truth is that in either scenario, we aren’t in charge, and in either scenario, we have no power… what it boils down to is where the TRUTH is, and where the STRENGTH is.  Satan can give some truth… but it’s mixed with lies – God is JUST TRUTH.  Satan may be strong, but he is *nothing* compared to God.  So when I say that I simply do what I’m told, I do it willingly, because I know what I’m going to get is nothing short of Truth, and that who I’m serving is going to utterly DESTROY the Craft in the end and reign surpreme.  I’m saying that I serve because I know I’m on the winning team, and even if I don’t have the agenda or the plan, I’m gonna be part of a big victory.  Even if that means (for now) utter frustration at times because of my own personal NEED to KNOW when I don’t really need to know.  Are you following?

Having said, that, I want to remind you that quite some time ago, I wrote two little lead-ins to the pre-wrath post that I’ve been MEANING to write about, and have been driving most of you CRAZY waiting for the rest of it.  But please understand that the timing for it (the pre-wrath post) isn’t right.  I don’t know how to explain it any differently than that.   I’m not being led to write it, so I *can’t* write it.  Anything I tried to write of myself would be contrived.  I can’t write the pre-wrath post until I’m TOLD to write the pre-wrath post.  And it’s just not time yet.  I WILL write it – when I’m supposed to.  Unfortunately it’s one of those frustrating things, because I don’t know when that will be, what I will write, how I will write it… nada.  I just do what I’m told when I’m told to do it.  I’m hoping that helps you understand and NOT be quite so frustrated with me.  I’m just a messenger.  I can’t deliver without a message, and my job isn’t to demand one, it’s to wait on the Lord.

HOWEVER, I was shown something yesterday about the pre-wrath scenario that I *WAS* told (this morning) to write.  And the WHOoOoOoOoOLE reason for this HUGE long weird preface is because I know that when I post this, I’m going to get comments saying, “You never finished writing about pre-wrath!  What about that pre-wrath post?”  You’re right – I didn’t.  And this isn’t it, either.  Sorry.  I can’t tell you anything more than that.  ((shrugs helplessly))  Remember… I just deliver messages.  That’s it.

What I *can* tell you is that I was shown something yesterday in church.  As I told you, I have HAD IT with church… it’s the first church in my LIFE that I cannot take notes at.  I’ve gone to bullshit CGM churches where I wrote like MAD refuting the message and flipping for verses to prove his points wrong.  I’ve gone to churches where there have been little glimpses of nuggets of Truth, and when I started digging deeper than the pastor did, I found INCREDIBLE wealth.  But this…?  It’s so… vacant… there’s nothing.  I haven’t been able to take one sermon note since January, and I’ve *tried*.  So I decided to start bringing ‘homework’ with me to church to do during the sermons.  I started out with some Biblical Astronomy papers given to me by some friends here on-line.  And yesterday I brought my pre-wrath notebook to further investigate the idea during the sermon.  ((To be honest, I only got about four pages, because I was… well,   over what went on in the service (a chick got up and gave this WHOLE long thing about her grandmother and how her grandma influenced her life and stuff… I-beg-yer-pardon, but wasn’t yesterday MOTHER’S day… not grandparent’s day…?!?!  I… uh… I can’t think like that.  Apparently there’s not one mother that is worth talking about, and we had to move back another generation… er’something.  The twitchie smilie is the only thing that exemplifies my response to that…  and btw, it’s a good thing I *didn’t* try to take notes, because… nevermind.))

Anyhow, a few weeks ago, I got an e-mail from Sylvia ((and I apologize… I know you spell it far differently, but I cannot for the LIFE of me remember how to spell your name that way, and I just think of you as ‘Sylvia’ because my blonde brain handles it better… please don’t be mad, k?))… anyhow, she comments here as “Noah’sMom” ((with a bunch of numbers behind it, which is why I don’t write THAT out, either.. I’m hideous at remembering large numbers.  People do NOT make it easy on me, but that’s just a personal aside…))

LONG STORY SHORT… Sylvia e-mailed me, and said that she was reading Revelation and saw that the last trumpet judgment was potentially THE ‘Last Trumpet’ and that she felt that meant that all of the seal and trumpet judgments had to be BEFORE the rapture, and that meant in the first 3.5 years of the Tribulation.  She divided fourteen judgments by fourty-two months, and got that we’d have a judgment seal/trumpet every three months.  She wanted to know what I thought about that… and I said, “hrm.  I’m going to have to do some thinking on that.”  Which basically means, “I’m not getting a green light, and I’m not entirely sure I logically agree, but I haven’t the verses at the moment to counter the suggestion, so I can’t help you at this point.”  Thank heavens she puts up with me.  The truth of the matter is… well…

  • First of all, there’s the assumption that we’re going to be raptured AT the middle of the Trib.  Pre-wrath and Mid-Trib aren’t neccessarily the same thing.  If we WERE to be raptured at the Tribulation’s halfway mark, and the Trib was started 1/1/07, then the rapture would be 7/1/10… and that’s not a Rosh Ha’Shana.  So the rapture itself cannot be a ‘judgment’, or it would be contingent on a set date, and it is more presented as its own, separate event, unscheduled so that it will be a ‘thief’ to those who rely on man’s interpretation rather than watching and learning themselves.
  • Secondly, that the seventh trumpet is the ‘Last Trump’ of 1 Corinthians is pure conjecture.  There’s nothing to back it up.
  • Thirdly, if the rapture was AFTER the trumpet judgments, we’d be experiencing wrath, according to the pre-wrath stance… and the Bible is clear that we won’t be here for the ‘wrath’ part of things.
  • Fouth, if scholars are right and the plagues (judgment) of Egypt is a foreshadowing of the judgments in Revelation, then the Trumpet judgments cannot be a part of what we experience as Christ-followers… because God’s people only experienced the first of the three sets of plagues/judgments… so we would only experience the first set of judments (seals) in the Tribulation.
  • And Fifth, if it every seal/trumpet judgment (14) divided evenly into the first half of the Trib (42 mos), and we came to the conclusion that a judgment occurred every three months, then the first seal would’ve had to have happened between January and March of 2007… and it didn’t.  There’s no white horse rider yet.  And the second seal would have to happen between March and June of 2007… and that would be war.  We’ve only six weeks left of that 3-month period, and I don’t forsee that happening in the next few weeks.  So it doesn’t work.  And if we *did* try to amend it by saying that the first 3 months was the ENPI (7-year treaty) and the second three months was the white rider… it STILL doesn’t work, because there’s not going to be a white rider in the next six weeks – the EU doesn’t even CONVENE to discuss these things until the very end of June… it wouldn’t be implemented until July… so it doesn’t fit.

NoTe:  I’m NOT trying to embarrass Sylvia.  I LOVE her e-mails, and she makes me think, and just the mere fact that SHE’S thinking and working at understanding these things just geeks me beyond words.  Very few people even CARE, so that Sylvia is studying to shew herself approved is a HUGE gold star in my book.  I’m just sharing HER thoughts with you, because I think you can learn along with the two of us… y’know?  It’s about iron sharpening iron.  She struck me with a thought, I sharpened that thought, and I’m pretty durn sure she’ll be back to sharpen me with either more ideas or more questions.  It’s… kewl.  Mostly because she’s not skeered, and I can’t say that of many people.

So anyhow, I was reading in church, and the pre-wrath paper said that the sixth seal judgment is the SAME description of ‘wrath’ that Jesus gave in Matthew 24, and that the rapture (based on that and pre-wrath supposition) will happen between the fifth and sixth seal judgments.  The reason the pre-wrath people hold that this is more logical than a mid-Trib rapture is because it’s not associated with any set ‘time’ (whereas the Middle of the Trib is 3.5 years… a ‘time’).  Now I don’t have the same hang-ups as the pre-wrath folks about ‘no man knoweth the day or the hour’… because (and most of you can quote me along with me)… while we don’t know the day or the hour, we know the feast, so we have it lowered down to a 2-day period in a yet undisclosed year.  Just because we don’t know the DAY or the HOUR within that 2-day period doesn’t mean it’s going to be totally unexpected.  It’s ONLY a thief in the night to those who aren’t watching, according to 1 Thess 5:4.  Okay.  Now that we’ve covered that YET AGAIN, let’s move on.

So I was looking at the events we’ve seen so far… which would be… not very many.  The ENPI (potentially the 7-year covenant with AC) went into effect January 1, 2007.   That would be the trigger for the start of the Tribulation.  So what happens after the Tribulation begins?  Well, the scene in heaven shows the worship of God, the presenting of the scroll, and the stepping forth of the Lamb to open the scroll as the only One worthy of the task.  ((The scroll being sealed with the seven seals that are events that happen on Earth, for those of you trying to follow and not familiar with Revelation.))  The ENPI/start of the Trib is NOT a judgment, per se.  The first judgment is the first seal.  And the first seal is a rider on a white horse –  a diplomacy brought about in the name of peace through a single person given enormous power.

The question is… do we have a ballpark as to when this might happen at this point (being now in the 7-year period)?  And the answer is YES.  In fact, I’d like us to look at a date and its surrounding events:  July 1, 2007.  ((I’m NOT afraid of dates.))  Look at the line up…

  • According to Biblical Astronomy,  on July 1, 2007 there is going to be an astronomical sign that replays the same events that played out in the heavens when Christ came to earth… only with one *slight* change – the heavenly sign in this event represents Satan instead of the Deliverer.  Which has led me to believe that July 1, 2007 may be the day of the first seal… the coming of the white horse rider.
  • July 1, 2007 is also the day the power over the EU is transferred.  The EU allows each of its member nations to take a 6-month turn at running the EU empire.  From January 1, thru June 30th, Germany/Merkel has held the reins… but come July 1, 2007, that power (presidency) will be given to someone else… either Solana (author and initiator of the ENPI) or Portugal.  We have been watching, and know that it’s Merkel’s intention to stop the rotating presidency and give it permanently to someone.  We also know that she wants it to be Solana.  We also know that he has been kept from gaining power within the EU because the nations have been unwilling to adapt the constitution that would’ve granted him authority.  But we know that Merkel has (in the past few months) been schmoozing the nations, and that they are ready to adopt the items within the constitution without calling it a constitution.
  • We know that June 21-22 is the EU summit, in which Merkel hopes to pass the ‘not-so-but-really-is Constitution’.  Which calls for an end to the rotating presidency… which would have been turned over to Portugal, had she not been able to schmooze as she did.  And we know that Blair isn’t giving up power in UK until AFTER that summit, so that he can push the ‘not-so-constitution’ through.  So whaever passes June 21-22 at the summit (and I suspect it will be the ‘not-so-Constitution’)… it will most likely begin July 1, 2007.
  • I know this is less viable factually, but I also wanted to add that July 1, 2007 is six days (the number of sin) before 7/7/7.  Seven being the number of perfection.  And the first world-wide headline Solana ever made was on 6/6/6.  Being a number person, you knew I’d be throwing these little zingers in there.

So the two events we have thus far (potentially, if I’m right about being in the Trib)… is the ENPI on 1/1/07 and the white horse rider being given his power on 7/1/07.  Look at those numbers… they’re six months apart.  Now… if the pre-wrath stance (that we will be taken out between seals five and six) is correct, and my musings about these things happening in the 3.5 years before the middle of the Tribulation are correct, then we have 42 months for the seal judgments… seven divided by 42 is six months… and how far apart are our events so far?  SIX MONTHS apart.  How would this work out…?


 ENPI :  7-year ‘covenant with many’ by Solana/Trib begins


 Seal 1:  Diplomat given power in the name of peace


 Seal 2:  Rider of Red Horse  (war begins)


 Seal 3:  Rider of Black Horse   (famine begins)


 Seal 4:  Rider of Pale Horse:  (death/sickness begins)


 Seal 5:  Martyrs beheaded for their faith begins


 Seal 6:  Wrath of God (see Matthew 24) begins


 Seal 7:  Mid-Trib Point. Begins 3yr silence.

Do you see that?  If this works out that way, the seal judgments end EXACTLY at the mid-point of the Tribulation, but the rapture is pre-wrath, not mid-Trib.  Further, it fits the six month timeframe thang EXACTLY.  Further, it will confound those who are looking for a mid-Trib or pre-Trib (too late) or Post-Trib rapture… because it doesn’t fit any of the prescribed methodologies for placing the rapture… and only those in 1 Thess 5:4 will get it… to the rest it *will* be like a ‘thief’… not understandable.  But God’s not a God of randomness… He likes order and precedence, and this SO fits with that characteristic, too.

So what am I saying?  I’m saying Sylvia – you were REALLY close, hon!  And I’m saying that I don’t know, can’t say FOR SURE by my own testimony that this is what’s going to happen – because frankly, I DON’T KNOW what’s going to happen.  Again, I’m just a messenger – I don’t have the game plan.  BUT…!!   I’ve been shown something, and I felt urged to share it with you.  So there you have it.

And yes, it took me almost FOUR HOURS to write this, when all is said and done.  But nobody said it was gonna be easy, and it’s A-Mazing the distractions I have when this shtuff comes up.  It’s a good thing He got me up early, or I’d’ve been here well into home ed time… ((shakes head and walks away))

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