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The Sabbath – Part 2
((Saturday, Sunday, or Something else?))
G’morning! Sorry for the one-day delay on this. It’s been a while since I went into a spiritual series, and I found myself a little overwhelmed. I know, I know… I should do more, then, right? I have at LEAST six topics I do want to write about that are of a Biblical nature, but I’ve never intended this site to be SOLELY for the purpose of ‘preaching’. I can teach a little (when the Spirit moves) and it comes out coherent, but if I don’t share WHO I am and WHAT I feel and HOW I think in between… along with fulfilling my calling to share prophecy in light of current events (aka NoteWorthy News)… then I’m an almanac, and a real DRAG to read. The goal here is to be human at the same time as inspiring and educating. Or if you prefer, to show LOVE in three of its four forms to my readers: spiritually (Biblical insight), intellectually (NoteWorthy News), and relationally (Tids n’ Tads, Bullet Blogs, rants/vents, pictures). It’s kind of hard to show love physically via Internet, so let’s not go there… be happy you saw a belly shot. That was WAY stretching for me. LoL!!
ANYHOOOO… In part one, I had to lay a little groundwork about how Yehovah’s calendar works… that it’s solar (sundown to sundown) daily and at the same time how it’s lunar (new moon to new moon) monthly. I also had to clarify how it got messed up. First by sin, in that part of the judgment rained down during The Flood screwed it up – knocking the Earth’s rotation around the sun off (thus making it MORE than the 360-day year it was supposed to be) and knocking the moon out of rotation (making its rotation 27.33 days intstead of 30 days). Since writing that, I’ve also found out that because the moon is out of rotation around a planet that’s out of rotation, it has to make up extra distance, as well. So the lunar cycle isn’t *just* 27.33 days off – it’s 29.5 days off, to make up for the distance when both out-of-rotations meet (r’something… I’m a little blonde when it comes to that much whackage.) Secondly, we looked at how Satan further schmucked things up by cutting the solar-lunar calendar in two, and creating a lunar-based system for paganism (revolving around solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycles), and also a solar-based system… which *WE* use via the Gregorian calendar.
The problem comes in trying to ‘reconcile’ Yahoveh’s calendar with our calendar. After all, we can’t just jump OUT of society completely, and to stay in our society and at the same time try to swap over to a lunar-monthly calendar (and expect not to be confused as hell) just doesn’t happen. For example… we’re in October, right? October 18th, the middle-ish part of the month. That’s great, BUT…!… the new moon was October 11th, which means the Hebrew month of Heshvan/Bul started weeks AFTER the Gregorian calendar… and today’s the 6th, not the 18th. Based on a Solar-Lunar calendar. That doesn’t reconcile out, now does it? ((snort)). Which is why we can’t put our finger on ONE day that’s Passover every year… the feast dates end up falling on different ‘days’ of our calendar… Rosh Ha’Shanah could be September 13-14 one year and September 27-28 another year. Unlike the oh-so-easy X-Mess, which is December 25 every year, or the Fourth of July or Halloween (October 31st). Yahoveh’s ‘Floater’ feast days are a pain in the groin because they don’t ‘reconcile’ with the pagan calendar we use… because we forsake HIS plan in the first place! ((And we grumble because of our own stOOpidity…))
KEY POINT: Which is why I immediately green-lighted on MountainMama’s observance that Shabbat could not be Saturday OR Sunday – because both are based on a solar calendar that doesn’t match new moons to months… just like the feasts never land on the same Gregorian date(although they’re on the same Hebrew date)… Shabbat cannot land on the same day, either. But then, when *is* Shabbat?
This is where I ran into trouble: even if we used HIS calendar instead, marking off the months as beginning with new moons… things weren’t lining up for me. The allegation was that you’d find that Sabbath falls on the same dates every month – because ‘six days shall ye labor, but the seventh is holy, and ye shall rest’, right? So if Day One of the month is the new moon, and we have six ‘work’ days before Shabbat, then Shabbat will *always* be on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th of the Hebrew month. But the PROBLEM with that is that from the 29th of the Hebrew month to the next new moon is… um, HOW many days? Not seven! Further, we mentioned above that the moon’s rotation takes 29.5 days… so where does that half day go? Because it’s not being accounted for, and that’d be six days lost a year… do they figure into the extra month later on down the line? So I went looking for answers… and I figured out about the half day…! You see, there are several months (I made them green) that have 30 days… six of them. Six days per 12 months (year) is .5 days per month. So by adding a day to six of the months, we ‘account for’ the half days. That makes sense, now.
Hebrew names of the months with their lengths
| Number | Hebrew | Length |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Nisan | 30 days |
| 2 | Iyar | 29 days |
| 3 | Sivan | 30 days |
| 4 | Tammuz | 29 days |
| 5 | Av | 30 days |
| 6 | Elul | 29 days |
| 7 | Tishrei | 30 days |
| 8 | Heshvan | 29 days |
| 9 | Kislev | 29 (30) days |
| 10 | Tevet | 29 days |
| 11 | Shevat | 30 days |
| 12* | Adar I* | 30 days |
| 12 / 13* | Adar II* | 29 days |
But there’s that floating 13th month… so I had to research that, too. When do they add an extra month, and why? It’s because our months (Gregorian) are 30/31 days long, and Hebrew months are 29/30 days long… so every three years or so they add the extra month in (instead of ‘leap year’ day-adding like we do). So that makes sense, too. See, you just need to step back and approach things one step at a time to verify how it works.
But what about the fact that between the 29th sabbath and the 1st sabbath there’s not seven days? Well, frankly… I still don’t know. The only thing I could figure is that the first is a new moon sabbath, which is different than a regular sabbath. That leaves four regular sabbaths (one for each week) PLUS the new moon sabbath. It would make sense to me, since every verse I read on this separates the ‘new moons’ from the ‘sabbaths’ when talking about them. But do you celebrate the new moon AS a Sabbath, and if you did, wouldn’t that be two Sabbaths in a row?
Then there was another problem. Some of you pointed out that Yom Kippur falls on the 10th of the month… that’s NOT a Sabbath, and the contention of most Lunar Sabbath papers was that every feast landed on a new moon. Did you know that it’s INTENTIONALLY not a Sabbath? According to JewFAQ: Yom Kippur should not fall adjacent to Shabbat, because this would cause difficulties in coordinating the fast with Shabbat… A day is added to the month of Cheshvan or subtracted from the month of Kislev of the previous year to prevent these things from happening. This process is sometimes referred to as “fixing” Rosh Hashanah. Yom Kippur is the one feast day that cannot be a Sabbath, because it’s a day of fasting… and they actually add ANOTHER day to a month to prevent it from happening… so THAT’S what the (30) in parenthesis on my chart is for!! Although I must also add that everything I’ve read says still says (in spite of the fasting thing) that Yom Kippur is set aside as “The Sabbath of sabbaths”. I don’t know why, and I can’t figure out if that means this is an ADDITIONAL sabbath specifically set apart because of… whatever reason they say it’s ‘The Sabbath of Sabbaths”. I don’t know. And I’ve read a PECK of papers on this. I’m still working on a few things, myself, via my own sources, because…
Well, frankly, the links on MountainMama’s sites gave me so many red flags that I couldn’t even finish reading them. That guy is whacked… just as whacked as some of the people trying to prove him wrong and just sputtering all over the screen with no real data, verses (that were relevant or true verificatiion to their claims)… what a MESS. There is *one* paper that made total sense to me, and the author (John D. Keyser) doesn’t have an available e-mail to ask him about the 29th/1st sabbath. Some other whack-job guy put the .pdf of John’s work on his site, and I’ve e-mailed him, but the rest of what he has on there is so freakin’ weird I need to clarify NOW that it’s Keyser I green-lighted on – the site his doc is on is a HUGE red flag, and the maintenance guy is a fruit loop. But I’ll be studying Keyser’s paper further, because it’s WHOLLY grounded in scripture and is written logically, factually, and ‘green lights’ with me.
So… back to the original question: Is Sabbath on Sunday, Saturday, or Something Else? It’s on something else. Because Sunday and Saturday are Gregorian time-keeping tools… and God doesn’t use a half-ass calendar – He ordained something far better, far stronger, far more complete. And while it’s screwed up (our fault), it’s still fully useable, because of the fact that it is based on new moons (which are cyclic) and has been adjusted to account for the screwage from The Flood. Further, it makes sense… except for the 29th/1st thing, and I’m GOING to find out about that.
So what does all of this mean? It means that the 8th of Heshvan is the next true Sabbath… which is Friday night thru Saturday night. And yes, that’s a ‘Saturday’ sabbath. But it won’t remain that way… our months aren’t the same length as Jewish months, because we aren’t lunar based.
And I know that it’s all very startling and you probably have a TON of questions… ((so do I!!))… I will do my best to answer them tomorrow. Today is town day, and I’ve GOT to skoot. I’ll be gone to my mom’s, but the comment section is open, and I’ll address what I can in the a.m., k? (((Thanks for understanding!!)))
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FKIProfessor
/ October 18, 2007I followed your first post fine. Then I looked up lunar cycles and I understand the 29.5 v 27.3 thing. Then I read the part where you were saying Sabbath count starts over every lunar “synodic” month. I frankly have no idea how THAT came up as a possibility. When months start over, unless a month were ALWAYS 28 days (or some multiple of 7) the Sabbaths would fall only one or two days apart. That doesn’t follow logically what God said in Gen 2:1-3 in the 4th commandment (Ex 20). Also, when you look at the feasts in Lev 23 it seems pretty obvious that special Sabbaths are setup without regard (in addition to) regular weekly Sabbaths. And finally, the Yom Kippur “fasting” is not an accurate understanding of Mosaic law’s instruction to “afflict yourself”. No, I do NOT think Sabbaths are or ever were coordinated with certain days of the month. You’ve got a lot more work on your hands to prove that thesis to me – though I am well aware you didn’t write this for my benefit. I suspect, once you step back from this and look at it from a distance, you’ll want to really look at scripture again and seek God’s wisdom in this matter.
erinjo
/ October 18, 2007i think it is cool that you are researching this – we get so stuck in our western “gregorian” mindset that we forget to look at what the scriptures teach from a different point of view. i understand what you are trying to say, and like the professor, i don’t agree with everything, but, i look forward to seeing what else you learn and share with us.
fiberaddict
/ October 18, 2007OK, I’m confused, but I’m also blonde..so there ya go. :grin: I see where you’re coming from…but. But. The Jews have been keeping the Sabbath for centuries, and it falls on what we call Fri/Sat. I can’t……I can’t wrap my brain around the whole “moving” thing……it sounds like you would have to “reset” everything each month, and I don’t see that as ever having happened. (Am I making sense….I do to myself, but…:grin:)
Like the Professor, I need a bit more info (and time! :wink:) to get this worked out in my own head.
Thanks for your research – I am trying to comprehend this!
koldodi
/ October 18, 2007Happy Hebrew (Civil) Leap Year 5768!!! :0)
evenavapor
/ October 18, 2007Well I agree with everything you’ve said so far…hubby and I have been going through alot of stuff and the Bible and have come to the same conclusions. I also read the paper by John D. Keyser…it is very good, but I liked the creation calendar guy better
According to what I have learned, The New Moon Days are not rest days but worship days. The 7th Day Sabbath Rest is a rest day AND a worship day…on worship days you can do work but there is no buying and selling. That’s the difference I have seen.
With the new moon, we are doing it according to the day after the conjunction of the moon (which is usually when the crescent will appear by that evening). For example, the conjuction was on october 11th at 1:01am so the New Moon Day began that evening and lasted until the next evening when we spotted, from our backyard, the first tiniest sliver of the crescent moon on the evening of friday october 12th and that started the first work day for us. So, friday eve-saturday eve (workday 1) saturday eve -sunday eve (workday2) sunday eve-monday eve (workday 3) monday eve-tuesday eve (workday 4) tuesday eve – wednesday eve (workday 5) wednesday eve – thursday eve (workday 6) So, thursday evening to friday evening is the Sabbath Day.
We decided to observe the new moon day the day after conjuction because it is the first full new day…since conjuction can occur at anytime of the day if you observe The New Moon Day on conjunction day you will have some time in there that is from the old month. So, we figured it has to be the next day that is the new moon day and usually the crescent is spotted by that evening and that would be the cue from Yah to get back to work. But anyways, that’s what we are doing …it’s so nice that you don’t think we are crazy , 95% of the people we have told this too (mostly family) thinks we are totally nuts!! Oh well, what’s more important? Man’s Ways or the Ways Of Yah??
Thank you for writing these articles, it feels good to know that there is at least someone out there who can see what I see
Anna
/ October 18, 2007The only monthly ‘reset’ is the Gregorian one… because it’s flawed. But I’m still reading up on this. And no, I have no desire to try to ‘convince’ anyone of anything… that’s the Spirit’s job. I’m simply sharing what I’m being convicted of looking into further. What you do with it is your choice. :kisses:
Anna
/ October 19, 2007“Not that it affects the information in your post, and not to be a fly in your ointment, but…”
Then don’t.If it’s not relevant, if it’s only going to potentially cause trouble and give me a migraine while 10-ish days from going into labor… don’t. It’s not that I don’t like you, it’s not that I don’t value your comments… I’m just hormonal and DON’T need things complicated and ANY issues handed over to losers to run with. If it’s not relevant and doesn’t change anything… let it be. K?
FKIProfessor
/ October 19, 2007Perhaps I missed something, but I don’t recall anywhere finding that the Roman calendar changed the day of the week or that the Jews ever changed the way they counted weeks since the time of Moses. The only thing the Gregorian calendar reset was year numbers and eliminating the lunar aspect of month/year date keeping. Did I miss something else?
Anna
/ October 19, 2007Oh, those are the ONLY things? :twitch: Yes… I suppose so. And the ONLY thing that Christ’s death did was atone for sin… :twitch:
koldodi
/ October 20, 2007Leviticus 16:29, Lev. 23:27-32, and Numbers 29:7-11 in the Torah state clearly that Yom Kippur is a day in which you shall do no work. Look at the first two Hebrew words in 16:29 “shabbat shabbaton”.I love blueletterbible.org because if you click on the “C” button it opens the verse up in the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint. You can see the Greek import of “shabbatsabbaton” clearly as the first two words there as well. Leviticus 23:27-32 ends very clearly with Yom Kippur as a “shabbat shabbaton” as well. I meant to mention that in Colossians chapter 2, the disciple of one of Israel’s greatest Sages, the Apostle Paul disciple of Gamliel, wrote “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.” I word hold closer to these categories than http://www.creationcalendar.com/.The Greek word used for “holyday” is the same used as “feast” in the Gospels when it speaks of Passover and Sukkot and even other feasts (heorte/heort). It is used elsewhere in the NT for other feast days. New moon was just that “new moon” (noumenia or noumen*) and Sabbath was the Greek word for “shabbaton”. I do recognize that the feast days prescribed in Lev. 23 are also sabbaths. The Mishna confirms this practice in the 1st and 2nd century and so do the Targums and the Septuagint centuries prior.RYC FKIProfessor: Yom Kippur as a fast is the understanding conveyed to Zechariah by the LORD in Zechariah in Zechariah 8:18-19 “And the word of the LORD of hosts came unto me, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The fast of the fourth [month], and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.”
koldodi
/ October 20, 2007I re-read my last comment with the FBP and realized I needed to give much props to Y’shua since Sha’ul (Paul) was His discple also. In saying this it seems fitting to remark on the fact that Sha’ul (Paul) did not write down the methodology of the calendar noted by the “lunar sabbath” groups. Messiah corrected the misunderstandings Sha’ul had in relation to understanding the Torah and the Prophets and it is well documented that Sha’ul went up to Jerusalem at the appointed times along with people who were scattered out among the nations. About Zechariah 8:18-19: The fast of the fourth month is Tzom Tammuz (17th of Tammuz), the fast of the fifth is Tisha b’Av (9th of Av), the fast of the seventh is Yom Kippur (10th of Tishri), and the fast of the tenth is Asara b’Tevet (10th of Tevet). 2Ki 25:1-3 “And it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, in the tenth [day] of the month, [that] Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about. And the city was besieged unto the eleventh year of king Zedekiah. And on the ninth [day] of the [fourth] month the famine prevailed in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land.”So chronologically the occurrences that are commemorated happened in this order: 1. Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon began the siege against Jerusalem on Asara b’Tevet ( the tenth day of the tenth month). 2. And on the ninth [day] of the [fourth] month the famine prevailed in the city, and there was no bread for the people of the land. This is Tzom Tammuz.3. Tisha b’Av (fifth month) commemorates the destruction of the 1st Temple and subsequently the 2nd Temple also. Note that many other tragedies occurred on the 9th of Av. “…Should I weep in the fifth month [Av], separating myself, as I have done these so many years?” -Zechariah 7:3 “In the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month …came Nebuzaradan … and he burnt the house of the L-RD…” -II Kings 25:8-9 “In the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month… came Nebuzaradan … and he burnt the house of the L-RD…” – Jeremiah 52:12-13 How then are these dates to be reconciled? On the seventh the heathens entered the Temple and ate therein and desecrated it throughout the seventh and eighth and towards dusk of the ninth they set fire to it and it continued to burn the whole of that day. … How will the Rabbis then [explain the choice of the 9th as the date]? The beginning of any misfortune [when the fire was set] is of greater moment. -Talmud Ta’anit 29a Five misfortunes befell our fathers … on the ninth of Av. …On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta’anit 4:6 See http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayd.htm for a list of other bad things like the Expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492 which began on the 9th of Av.Maranatha! Even so come Lord Y’shua!
Anna
/ October 20, 2007I have absolutely no idea what you just said… :twitch:
koldodi
/ October 21, 2007Don’t worry Anna. I’m sorry to trouble you. We are praying for you and your soon to be out-of-the-womb son. Grace and Shalom to you in the name of Yeshua.